Forsake the Troops

[RockAndRoll73]

I recently discovered this website Forsake the Troops (http://www.forsakethetroops.info) I would like anyone's opinions on this website. I know it could set off a hornet's nest but I just to see if my feelings are similar to others.

[dyedude22]

That's disgusting. Troops are fighting for your, and other people's freedom, there is no reason we shouldn't support them as much as possible.

[dynastyfan]

i hope to whatever higherpower there is that this is a sick joke. i have friends overseas and in iraq and this pisses me off to no end.

[dyedude22]

Originally posted by dynastyfan@May 10 2005, 07:34 PM
i hope to whatever higherpower there is that this is a sick joke. i have friends overseas and in iraq and this pisses me off to no end.
1465


Check my siggy for how I feel about the war, and it's protesters. <_<

[RockAndRoll73]

Sadly this is not a joke. He says he is protected by the 1st ammendment, and yet who protects the constitution; the servicemen and women. It makes me extremely mad, especially since the website is based in my hometown. :angry: Most syracusians are very patriotic, well at least the lot that I talk to. There are several bases in the suburbs, including an advanced tanker camp for the Marines, and a National Guard fighter wing. Fort Drum, home of the 10th mountain division is stationied less than an hour away. My dad is in the Navy, and then to find out this scum lives in Syracuse, o boy, if I ever see him on the street, there would be quite a discussion. He is horrible scum that wants to boycott Metallica because they are promilitary. I might be putting together a completely legal protest in front of his officies. When he tells me to leave, I'll just say "Guess what, 1st ammendement." Use his own medicine.

[dyedude22]

Originally posted by RockAndRoll73@May 10 2005, 07:41 PM
* I might be putting together a completely legal protest in front of his officies.* When he tells me to leave, I'll just say "Guess what, 1st ammendement."* Use his own medicine.
1471


Just keep it clean, and they really can't do much about it.

[RockAndRoll73]

That's what I plan to do. Keep it clean and legal. Of course, it won't hurt that I have ties within several local police departments (Heck, I was McGruff once for a police benefit) and most officers would most likely join us.

[dynastyfan]

i dont beleive in why we are in iraq but man those men and women in iraq and afghanistan have the highest amount of respect from me. and for this little ###### stick to say that all their benfits are undeserved really pisses me off. every freedom he uses is undeseved, you think he fought for his right to speak freely, NO this guy really does need a reality check and i hope that he gets his some day

[danman2008]

ANTI FTT REVOLUTION!!!! Who is in it with me that site just made me sick...... hate mail, anything what should we do......

[dyedude22]

Originally posted by danman2008@May 10 2005, 07:55 PM
ANTI FTT REVOLUTION!!!! Who is in it with me that site just made me sick...... hate mail, anything what should we do......
1482


I don't condone of those actions. Keep it up and the thread will be closed.

[GrungeIsDead]

Originally posted by dyedude22+May 10 2005, 08:36 PM-->Check my siggy for how I feel about the war, and it's protesters.* <_<
1469
[/b]

Alright first Dye Dude, that song is horriable and is stupidy propaganda, drawling a line from 9/11 to Iraq WHICH has NO connection at all, and drawling one makes you ignorant if you believe so to the REAL fact we are in there. According to George W. Bush we are in there for the fact of WMD's to secure our own saftey, the fact that we free iraqi's is a side effect as far as he's concerned. Now that we know that Iraq has no WMD's it's made him(Dubya as the retard likes to be called) like a bigger ######-hole than he already was looking like.

If you believe in the song that we are looking for Bin Laden in Iraq than you really know no history about the Middle East at all, the fact that Bin Laden was turned down for the assingment to lead the war on Kuwait that sparked a little war we called the Gulf war. Saddam thinking he was just a rich jackass denied him, where Bin Laden left to Afganastan. We're we aided him agianst the Russians.

If you're agianst protestors for anti-war, than you ought to shut your mouth cause you have no right to protest for war if you want to deprive them of their rights as well.


<!--QuoteBegin-RockAndRoll73@May 10 2005, 08:41 PM
Sadly this is not a joke.* He says he is protected by the 1st ammendment, and yet who protects the constitution; the servicemen and women.* It makes me extremely mad, especially since the website is based in my hometown. :angry:* Most syracusians are very patriotic, well at least the lot that I talk to.* There are several bases in the suburbs, including an advanced tanker camp for the Marines, and a National Guard fighter wing.* Fort Drum, home of the 10th mountain division is stationied less than an hour away.* My dad is in the Navy, and then to find out this scum lives in Syracuse, o boy, if I ever see him on the street, there would be quite a discussion.* He is horrible scum that wants to boycott Metallica because they are promilitary.* I might be putting together a completely legal protest in front of his officies.* When he tells me to leave, I'll just say "Guess what, 1st ammendement."* Use his own medicine.
1471


Have a good fight with him, I don't agree with his ideas, people who are willing to risk they're lives deserve the little we offer them. But hey want to go fight with him go for it. But hey, what gives you anymore the right to use that 1st ammendment than him, what have you done in the service of our nations defense? That makes you hypocrate.

I really don't want to get in this. Our millitary is under funded from my understanding, and actually doing cuts on like housing salary/benifts, would actually help with more essential things that the military needs like, armor... but that isn't what he's proposing.

[stealthyeliminator]

ok, ive come back for a few minutes and i see we have another descusion goin. alrighty, time for stealthys two cents. i didnt read the website but from what you all have posted i am assuming he is against the war. i am for the war. that doesnt mean im for the reasons for the war, but i am for the war. if that doesnt make any sense, well too bad cause i dont want to explain. i dont know much about the war. i do know that my freind is over their fighting though. actually my freindS are over their fighting. why? not because its their job. not cause they are blood thirsty. not because they want their pay check. because of what they belive in. if you want to know what i belive in, do what grunge is constantly telling you all (me too) to do. read one called "whatever happend to penney candy" and one called "whatever happend to justice". i basicaly agree with everything said in those books, except maybe a few things. i havnt compleatly read the later yet but im reading it for school. they arent long books and they are very easy to read. they are in the form of letters.

this new forum is really coming a long... i just cant seem to leave it like i said i was...

[bandlesspaintballer]

that site is just sick, i know....... get them to be in the military for a second, i garauntee theyll change what they say. idiots i swear..why do we have morons living here talking against them, its a holy war and its us or the al queda, and they know we think of them as weak and under defended. even iraq, the soldiers are doing us good

[xPropheTx]

I don't agree with the website that was posted. I think soldiers should recieve all the benefits they already do. I mean, they are risking their lives to protect our country. My beef is not with the soldiers, but with our government. From what i've seen in our lifetime, our government are a bunch of warmongers. It's like they aren't satisfied unless we are beating the crap out of some 3rd world country to "liberate" them. I personally think we should just mind our own business in the world. We should pull all our troops out of these countries, bring them back over here where it is safe, and instead of spending billions on bullets and bombs spend the money on education, healthcare, social security, and to help those less fortunate in our own country. Can you imagine what can be done with all the money we spend on our military? And besides, there are other ways to help countries in need than going to war with them.

[stealthyeliminator]

a5. i have to dissagree, almost compleatly. instead of our goverment changing, how about we downsize it? read the books i mentioned and you will know what im talking about. if your too lazy to read the books, think about this. do we need those benafeits you listed to come from the goverment? moses lead the people in the desert for fourty years WITHOUT a goverment. sure, he had judges, but there wernt like the judges we have today. they were probably more like advisors. the goverment hasnt always been involved in education, and my opinion is it still has no busieness in education.... i dont wnat to be argued with about this so please dont. if you read those books then i garrenty (sp?) that you will have a compleatly different view of our goverment and economic system.

[GrungeIsDead]

Lol, what you're supposing is anarchy. The disestablishment of our goverment would utimatley be the down fall of the United States.

Should the goverment play the role as it does in Social Security, yes. What you're suggesting is privization(sp) of social security, an idea which bush's administration is pushing for. Do you honestly think people are willing to save the money rather than be forced into it? No, as history shows us and as our society plays we know we wont save it, thats why FDR was smart enough to bring it to us when the we had the stock market crash, AKA The Great Depression, if people had been smart enough to save their money as they go then the depression wouldn't have been as a bad as it was, people would have still had money. The goverment takes care of it, so we don't have to, they're watching out for us.

Education system, you're suggesting that public schooling is a flawed plan? are you mentally challenged? Look at nations which don't have public schooling and where they're litteracy rate is at, some are in the low 1-10%, meaning that out of all the people they're only say 10% can write their own language. Once agian you'd have to put faith into people actually going to school, how many kids do you think would drop out of middle school if they weren't legally forced to be there. A lot more. Building smarter people helps us more than you're giving it credit.

Healthcare, providing healthcare to those who can't afford it with medicad is the only way they'll get help. It's not a choice, its a must. You know how much you're familly could save if we had free health care like Canada, and if perscription drug prices were lowered.

Bring me a man who can part the sea, and I'd follow him, till then we do NEED a goverment.

[danman2008]

Hahaha you believed my post about the revolution, dyedude you should know better. Look at all my other posts they are not like that. But seriously I do believe that is one of the most twisted things I have ever seen.

[surealpaintballer]

yea seen the site before............that guy is a jackass i have a essay iwrote on another forum and ###### but i dont think ill post it here

######..enough said

[dynastyfan]

heres the response from my law enforcement teacher who is an ex army ranger, the language is pretty bad but its justified


As a former Army Ranger and one who has dedicated his entire life to service to this country, I would LOVE to meet up with you in person. I would enjoy the jail time I would get for stomping you into a bloody mass of ######. You have no idea what honor, sacrifice, commitment and courage mean. Those you degrade have chosen lives in service to something greater than themselves - the ideal of freedom that allows you to exist and do the things you do. Do not think for a moment that you would be alive, much less able to publish such a website, in a country whose freedom was not borne by the blood of patriots like those of whom you speak. I think you should do the world a favor and kill yourself. Not because I disagree with your views or you right to spout them, but because you are a ###### human being who is willfully ignorant without any concept of service or sacrifice and no regard for the feelings of those who have made the ultimate sacrifice and their loved ones. You ****ing disgust me. I wish you were down range in any of the firefights I have been in - making you collateral damage would be a further demonstration of my service to society. I do not think that I should decide who lives and dies, but I do judge you for your disloyal actions and wish you had the courage to do the right thing and hang yourself. Of course, you would probably eat a bullet so someone else would have a mess to clean up. Your level of selfishness is the antithesis of everything service men and women stand for. If you were capable of only half of their character you would be worth saving. I bet your parents are so disappointed by what you have become - or are they worthless pieces of ######, too? I feel bad, in a way, for responding because even this response somewhat legitimizes your existence. Do not bother responding to this message - any response will be immediately deleted - I'm sure you're the type of pussy to spread viruses around to those who disagree with you. Lastly, I cherish your right to free speech and I am thankful you have a country and a forum in which to exercise that right. Your views, however, are despicable. Were we to meet face to face you would learn what it means to sacrifice for those freedoms. To everyone associated with this site - HAVE SOMEONE TAKE PICTURES OF YOUR SUICIDE SO WE CAN SEE SOME GOOD HAS BEEN DONE. If you were to have published this in Iraq three years ago, Saddam's hitmen would have simply executed you - no trial, no care. You don't have to worry about that in Syracuse because of our armed forces. Maybe you feel like too much of your tax money goes to them, but I challenge you to imagine (if you have the depth of intellect) what life would be like without the freedoms they have earned for you. You are a classic intellectual contradiction: You disparage those who earned your freedoms by exercising those very freedoms. That is also evidence of an absence of true intellect. You see, not only was I a warrior, but also an educated man. I'm sure all of you are too cowardly to exact your own justice upon yourself - doing the right thing often takes courage. Maybe one day you will wake up with the guilt you should feel for the work you have done here. Perhaps one day someone who will speak to you can help you understand the reasons why soldiers are paid the way they are. Among these is because they DO NOT possess the freedoms they defend. They volunteer to sacrifice most of their constitutional rights on YOUR behalf. Their pay is a pittance for that. Every E-4 and below with a family of four is BELOW POVERTY level and qualifies for food stamps and welfare. What a disgrace. Yet, they willingly give up their 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 8th and 14th Amendment rights (to varying degrees) in service to the greater ideal of freedom. A soldier would be severely punished for this type of website. You are not because of their sacrifices. You think you are a patriot - you have no idea what that means. You are the leech. You suck heartily from the tit of freedom with acknowledging where the milk comes from. You think you are entitled to your freedoms. Who would preserve them, if not our military? Look around throughout history at the fate of peoples who could not defend themselves. France, Poland, Cambodia, Rwanda, Burundi, Korea, Vietnam, Kuwait, Chechnya, Somalia - all of these are shining examples of how predatory nations will prey on the weak. Can YOU defend your freedoms? Doubtful. We would find out if we were to meet; that I can assure you. I believe Americans should have the right to burn the flag, but I will kick the ###### out of anyone who does it around me. See, unlike you, I don't want all my personal views to become policy or law. I am much too rigid in my thinking for a nation. But I like my convictions as they are for me and my family. Have your freedom of speech. But insult me or mine and I ###### you up. Everything has its boundaries and you have gone WAY beyond the boundaries of decency in this website. My guess would be that you are someone who either was denied service or got kicked out because you are a piece of ######. I'm done. Add this to your stack of hate mail - I know it must be HUGE. I doubt this will get published on your site because everything I say here is true and your stand is indefensible. I will never know if it does or not because I will never log on again. I won't tell people not to log on, because they will out of curiosity. I will allow you to be obscure and insignificant as you are and hope that either you change your ways or overdose on laxatives and ###### yourself to death.

[stealthyeliminator]

:D :lol: :D :lol: :D :lol:
i knew it would be you! LOL..

Lol, what you're supposing is anarchy. The disestablishment of our goverment would utimatley be the down fall of the United States.

nope, i said downsize. do you realize how much our goverment has grown since it was established? and dont say its just cause the nation is growing. thats bull crud. it doesnt need to be.. no wait.. it SHOULDNT be as big as it is. READ THE BOOKS. oh if you had just readed the books you would understand what im talking about.... when this country was started, everyone was homeschooled. the people that started this country were homeschooled(i think). what the heck is wrong with homeschooling???

Should the goverment play the role as it does in Social Security, yes. What you're suggesting is privization(sp) of social security, an idea which bush's administration is pushing for. Do you honestly think people are willing to save the money rather than be forced into it? No, as history shows us and as our society plays we know we wont save it, thats why FDR was smart enough to bring it to us when the we had the stock market crash, AKA The Great Depression, if people had been smart enough to save their money as they go then the depression wouldn't have been as a bad as it was, people would have still had money. The goverment takes care of it, so we don't have to, they're watching out for us.

again... THE BOOKS. the first one i listed is compleatly about economics, including a great deal about the great depression. did you know, if our goverment didnt inflate money (thats counterfiting by the way) there would have been no great depresion, in fact, there wouldnt have even been any recesions! ever think about why rome fell?


Education system, you're suggesting that public schooling is a flawed plan? are you mentally challenged? Look at nations which don't have public schooling and where they're litteracy rate is at, some are in the low 1-10%, meaning that out of all the people they're only say 10% can write their own language. Once agian you'd have to put faith into people actually going to school, how many kids do you think would drop out of middle school if they weren't legally forced to be there. A lot more. Building smarter people helps us more than you're giving it credit.

again... read the books.....im not saint building smarter people is bad, im saing the goverment doing it is bad.

Healthcare, providing healthcare to those who can't afford it with medicad is the only way they'll get help. It's not a choice, its a must. You know how much you're familly could save if we had free health care like Canada, and if perscription drug prices were lowered.

did i say this was bad? no. im saing we dont need the goverment to do it. im not saing we need to get rid of our goverment, im saing downsize it.

Bring me a man who can part the sea, and I'd follow him, till then we do NEED a goverment.

he was here.. and God had it written down in his book called the Bible. you talk about history and all that jazz but you dont pay attention to the most important history of all, the bible.

and now your going to post again.. argueing with all that i just said.. and it will turn out just like all the others where everyone all of a sudden stops posting except me...

i have some figures for you. ill give them later.. and some stuff out of the books i keep talking about.

[stealthyeliminator]

ok. in 1821 the federal goverment had only 6,914 civilian employees; sixty years later it still only had 100,020. not until the 20th century did the goverments growth become explosive, now exceeding 2,700,000.

since 1821, the population of the U.S. has increased 30-fold while the federal goverment has increased 390-fold.- whatever happened to justice.

i take these figures with a grain of salt, meaning im not 100 percent sure they are true, but thats what the book sais and i bet its correct. the figures dont mean hardly anything at all UNLESS you have read the entire chapter and maybe a few before it. i HIGHLY recomend everyone here that is debateing read these books. even i understand them!

someone hurry up and post, i want to debate. and why dont the mods post? cause yall kno yall would prove us wrong?lol

P.S. i like the looks, they are really coming along. er, mods and admins, why have i been degraded? i demand i be re-promoted.

[PaintballinnTGP1608]

I Am very ticked at people who believe in withdrawing our troops. WOULD YOU RATHER FIGHT THEM IN IRAQ OR DOWN THE CORNER FROM YOUR STREET? John Kerry would have withdrawed and thats why I think anyone who believed it was a bad war, wrong, heres that oh so famous ( kinda ) quote from John Kerry.

" I actually voted for the 87 billion before I voted against it."

?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????

Thats why anyone who doesnt support the war " John Kerry changed his mind :P , and some people stand corrected. John Kerry is, oh I dont have to say it but you know my side of the war.

[GrungeIsDead]

Originally posted by stealthyeliminator@May 11 2005, 03:47 PM


nope, i said downsize. do you realize how much our goverment has grown since it was established? and dont say its just cause the nation is growing. thats bull crud

Are you a republican? I take it as you are but don't be offended if you arn't but do you not get the sense of the word. A republic is where you have a thing called a represenative (such as the House of represenatives.) for each citizen, of course as the country grows you are simply going to need more people to represent them, 1 person speaking for 50,000 people isn't going to work, you're simply gonna have to many angry people whose oponions aren't going to be voiced. Thinking other why's is ignorant.


it doesnt need to be.. no wait.. it SHOULDNT be as big as it is. READ THE BOOKS. oh if you had just readed the books you would understand what im talking about.... when this country was started, everyone was homeschooled. the people that started this country were homeschooled(i think). what the heck is wrong with homeschooling???

How about you tell me a little about this BOOK, which you keep calling it, not even by the title, before i rush off and throw money down the drain. I have no conception of what its going to be about.

Homeschooling, how does one become smart enough to school someone, without going to college, teachers arn't even allowed to teach, without going to a school of some sort, with grades, you wont get into a college, if you simpy take the system the foundation of our countries ways will go bezerk, kinda like russia when they introduced a free market, and took the communist controlled one away, no one had food, no one knew whats to do. People of the early days weren't all home-schooled, depending on how far you go back and which region. Many people in the south kept kids home and had "homeschooling" but much rather worked on the farm, which was okay at the time, cause odds are that kid was going to be a farmer anyways.

How are you going to be homeschooled, are you homeschooled, do your parents have time to teach you 6-8 hours a day, if not do they have enough money to have someone to teach you, if not how do you expect poorer people to do so, even when they might work 2 jobs with 3 shifts, how do they find the time, what happens to their kids, do they stay stupid. Rather cutting funding to EDUCATION cutting funding for DEATH and destruction seems like a much smarter plan.



again... THE BOOKS. the first one i listed is compleatly about economics, including a great deal about the great depression. did you know, if our goverment didnt inflate money (thats counterfiting by the way) there would have been no great depresion, in fact, there wouldnt have even been any recesions! ever think about* why rome fell?

First off inflation isn't only due to conterfitting, read up on that first, inflation can come to the value of the dollar which is depedent soley the amount of gold in our Federal reserve.
Romes money became worhtless because no one had money and to make up for that they sent out more money into the market, money that had no value, cuase it had nothing backing it. Kinda like I have 5 dollars worth of gold, and 5 dollar bills, well to pay someone off, i make 5 more dollars and give them that... so i still have 5$ but its worthless, cuase the gold i have just split. That's what inflation and deflation is really. no only counterfiting, which does cause inflation. but taking money out of circulation deflates the market.




again... read the books.....im not saint building smarter people is bad, im saing the goverment doing it is bad.

Looks to me like you could use more schooling, before you go out and say our goverment is failing at the job, you might want to actually be able to type a sentence... Our goverment isn't failing us, although us as people are failing ourselves, letting other countries out beat us in the education world. Who else would do it if the goverment doesn't, you?



did i say this was bad? no. im saing we dont need the goverment to do it. im not saing we need to get rid of our goverment, im saing downsize it.

How do you downsize a system which is already to small to fufill its need. Everything you suggest is getting rid of money from the goverment, but whom is here to provide it if not them, you're missing the point fella, if we pay taxes to go help others, than what else is the point.





Bring me a man who can part the sea, and I'd follow him, till then we do NEED a goverment.

he was here..

And now where is he, what are we to do without him.


and God had it written down in his book called the Bible. you talk about history and all that jazz but you dont pay attention to the most important history of all, the bible.

Techniqually(sp) god didn't write it, he gave others the idea to write it. History? What history, they can hardly prove any of that happened. All that jazz, give me a break, they can prove things before they had written languages, but they can't find a giants ###### arc. Whatever.

[surealpaintballer]

grudge...look....

is it nnice for him to write our soldiers arescumbags? no

know why he is calling them scumbags...because of money....

no im not talking about money of hte site money that the soliders are geting paid...

i havnt read ur post but im just trying to make sure its still about hte site and not another politic theread about the gov and crap

[dyedude22]

Grunge, I said that shows how I feel about the protesters. Not the war. I feel that it's wrong to not support our troops period, I don't care who's running our country, or why we went to the war.

[electrapbr9119]

The Great Depression occured because investors were buying to much, to fast. Many stocks inflated to more than 10 times what they should have been worth. Suddenly, no one had enough to keep buying stocks, and billions were lost. People rushed to banks to withdraw their money. How do you think banks MAKE money? The stock market mainly, along with other ventures. With all of there money drained, and no one depositing anything else, the banks failed also.

Then, FDR came in with his "New Deal", created more government agencies, helped to create more jobs, and helped heighten consumer spending. I would actually say that the government expanded the most between 1930-1950.

[electrapbr9119]

Originally posted by PaintballinnTGP1608@May 11 2005, 04:16 PM
I Am very ticked at people who believe in withdrawing our troops. WOULD YOU RATHER FIGHT THEM IN IRAQ OR DOWN THE CORNER FROM YOUR STREET? John Kerry would have withdrawed and thats why I think anyone who believed it was a bad war, wrong, heres that oh so famous ( kinda ) quote from John Kerry.

" I actually voted for the 87 billion before I voted against it."

?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????

Thats why anyone who doesnt support the war " John Kerry changed his mind :P , and some people stand corrected. John Kerry is, oh I dont have to say it but you know my side of the war.
1706


We wouldn't be fighting in out streets. Because of our population, it would be almost damn near impossible to invade America. Why? I'm not sure of the exact figure, but I wouldn't doubt that there is probibly a gun to every household. I know that my dad and I alone have 8 guns. Guerulla warfare would be taken to a whole new level....

[GrungeIsDead]

Well if you don't support a war, but you support people whom are willing to go to war for whatever reason is kindof double sided.... Like saying I don't suport mudering, but support "ethical" killing. Or think if we had a army that was willing to go to wrong for a WRONG reason, they're as such things, what then. We can't just have an army thats willing to attack whatever for whatever, on a whim cause soemone says.
I support people whom do the right thing in the Military, there are plenty of people in the military that don't deserve our respect, people whom commit war crimes, which the media love to talk about, but I support anyone whose willing to fight for a rightful cause.

He calls the soldiers scum over money, why do you care what he thinks? Do you honestly think anyone in Captial Hill will take him serious? Hell do you think he gets all bent out of shape when someone calls him a scumbag? Are you in the military, are you have you ever been? If not I don't see why you take it personally? My dad was in the air force, retired a LT Col, i doudt he'd give a ###### what someone said about what he did in the AF, my dad's proud of it and what someone else says to him of it doesn't offend him, if it offends your friends well I'm sorry.

But the man has a point, we do dump a lot of money into benifits that could suit the military in better purposes, but thats not what he's propousing, he prepouses(sp?????) cutting everything, which must of you don't releaize president Bush has cut a lot of these things over time, such as Vetrians aids, over years, and has taken ###### for it.

[Tippmann07]

Number of US soldiers killed in the Iraq War, of their own doing, because they CHOSE to be leeches: 1,574. These scumbags deserved what they got.

THAT is the single worst thing I have ever heard in my entire life. This site sickens me, thinking my dad is in the military defending douche bags like this.

[GrungeIsDead]

Originally posted by PaintballinnTGP1608@May 11 2005, 04:16 PM
WOULD YOU RATHER FIGHT THEM IN IRAQ OR DOWN THE CORNER FROM YOUR STREET?

Who is them? If by them you mean Iraqis, than if so, how many iraqi people have you met in your life time? How many of them wanted to hurt you? I've met a total of 2 I believe. Iraq had no wish to do us harm. Infact they wouldn't want to bother us, our allies in Isreal, yes. But I very well doudt you'd ever have to worry about Iraqi people fighting on your door step... Infact Iraqi people only wanted to hurt other iraqi's. Saddam didn't gas out people, he gassed his own countrymen, I believe the group was Kurd's (correct me if wrong).

If by them you meant terrorist (such as al quedia or whatever faction) you're getting them confused with Iraq. Iraq had no terrorist cells. Infact if Saddam had Bin Laden in his country after 9/11 I bet'cha Saddam would have loved to help us, considering how much Saddam disliked Bin Laden, a mutual hate after Saddam basically called him Rich ######.




" I actually voted for the 87 billion before I voted against it."

well the famous tag line is " i dont support the war but I support the troops", which people he are using, so 87 billion dollars to fund the military for such things as armor, gear, weapons... um that actaully is a good thing right?

[stealthyeliminator]

"Are you a republican? I take it as you are but don't be offended if you arn't but do you not get the sense of the word. A republic is where you have a thing called a represenative (such as the House of represenatives.) for each citizen, of course as the country grows you are simply going to need more people to represent them, 1 person speaking for 50,000 people isn't going to work, you're simply gonna have to many angry people whose oponions aren't going to be voiced. Thinking other why's is ignorant.
How about you tell me a little about this BOOK, which you keep calling it, not even by the title, before i rush off and throw money down the drain. I have no conception of what its going to be about. "

i did. the first one is "whatever happend to penney candy. the second, "whatever happend to justice.

"Homeschooling, how does one become smart enough to school someone, without going to college, teachers arn't even allowed to teach, without going to a school of some sort, with grades, you wont get into a college, if you simpy take the system the foundation of our countries ways will go bezerk, kinda like russia when they introduced a free market, and took the communist controlled one away, no one had food, no one knew whats to do. People of the early days weren't all home-schooled, depending on how far you go back and which region. Many people in the south kept kids home and had "homeschooling" but much rather worked on the farm, which was okay at the time, cause odds are that kid was going to be a farmer anyways."

ok, adam (First person) came pre programed by God himself. if he tought his children what he knew, then his children tought their children what they knew........

How are you going to be homeschooled, are you homeschooled, do your parents have time to teach you 6-8 hours a day, if not do they have enough money to have someone to teach you, if not how do you expect poorer people to do so, even when they might work 2 jobs with 3 shifts, how do they find the time, what happens to their kids, do they stay stupid. Rather cutting funding to EDUCATION cutting funding for DEATH and destruction seems like a much smarter plan.
First off inflation isn't only due to conterfitting, read up on that first, inflation can come to the value of the dollar which is depedent soley the amount of gold in our Federal reserve.

our money isnt "backed" by anything anymore. its basically "worth" something because the goverment sais so. we dont even have dollors any more. do you know where we got the word dollor? do you know what a dollor is? we have federal reserve notes. not dollors, we just call them dollors.

"Romes money became worhtless because no one had money and to make up for that they sent out more money into the market, money that had no value, cuase it had nothing backing it. Kinda like I have 5 dollars worth of gold, and 5 dollar bills, well to pay someone off, i make 5 more dollars and give them that... so i still have 5$ but its worthless, cuase the gold i have just split. That's what inflation and deflation is really. no only counterfiting, which does cause inflation. but taking money out of circulation deflates the market. "

that, my freind, is what your precious goverment is doing right now.

"Looks to me like you could use more schooling, before you go out and say our goverment is failing at the job, you might want to actually be able to type a sentence... Our goverment isn't failing us, although us as people are failing ourselves, letting other countries out beat us in the education world. Who else would do it if the goverment doesn't, you?"

i never said it was failing its "job." what im saing is, should that be its job?

"How do you downsize a system which is already to small to fufill its need. Everything you suggest is getting rid of money from the goverment, but whom is here to provide it if not them, you're missing the point fella, if we pay taxes to go help others, than what else is the point. "

we dont have too small of a goverment. read the friggin books, i cant ecplain why, thats why there is a book about it.

"Bring me a man who can part the sea, and I'd follow him, till then we do NEED a goverment.
And now where is he, what are we to do without him."

he was here as an example. why dont you try to follow it.

Techniqually(sp) god didn't write it, he gave others the idea to write it. History? What history, they can hardly prove any of that happened. All that jazz, give me a break, they can prove things before they had written languages, but they can't find a giants ###### arc. Whatever.

i didnt say God wrote it. what the mess? before they had written laungeges (sp?). they had launguages when God created them!

ok, im braindead cause i just had a big steak, so if i didnt make sense thats why.

ok on your "bring me a man that can...." thing. moses didnt part the red sea, God did. there is sooo much i want to say, but i cant say it all, thats why im suggesting those books.

seems like every one of these topics turns into me a grunge going way WAY off topic make HUGE posts about economics and religion.. i would LOVE to meet you and talk about this where i dont have to type everything out.

[stealthyeliminator]

oh yea, you dont have to buy the books so you dont need to waste your money. you might can find them at a liberary or you can just read them at the book store. i understand if you dont though. and also, whoever said the great depresion was caused by the stock marker or whatever, that a symptom, not a cause. and about all the bad grammer and spelling, im always in a rush to post, so sorry. ok, lets just pretend you did read the books, you wouldnt be argueing with me. you see, i cant explain whats in the books, but thats what im talking about, so tahts why you dont understand me. im really sorry i got this off topic, but in a way its still on topic....

i hope this doesnt get closed cause of me...

Originally posted by GrungeIsDead@May 11 2005, 07:25 PM
Who is them? If by them you mean Iraqis, than if so, how many iraqi people have you met in your life time? How many of them wanted to hurt you? I've met a total of 2 I believe. Iraq had no wish to do us harm. Infact they wouldn't want to bother us, our allies in Isreal, yes. But I very well doudt you'd ever have to worry about Iraqi people fighting on your door step... Infact Iraqi people only wanted to hurt other iraqi's. Saddam didn't gas out people, he gassed his own countrymen, I believe the group was Kurd's (correct me if wrong). 1920


whether they did or not is irrelavent. its the goverment bud. you think there goverment was controled by their people? do you even think OUR goverment is controled by our people? gosh i need to leave.... ok i wont be coming back to this thread for a while....

[GrungeIsDead]

ok, adam (First person) came pre programed by God himself. if he tought his children what he knew, then his children tought their children what they knew........


Stop reffering to ****ing religion like its the truth in everything, if thats how we were taught nothing new would be found out, we'd just be going off 2000+years of old knowledge, cause all we would know was what "adam"(kindof funny that the first person name was adam, such a common name back then I bet.) knew.


our money isnt "backed" by anything anymore. its basically "worth" something because the goverment sais so.

Federal Reserve in NYC, go ask to tour the gold facility(which leaglly you arn't), but thats where the gold that backs our money


do you know where we got the word dollor?

It comes from the word for dollar in spanish, acutally.

do you know what a dollor is?

No I don't know what a dollor is... I do on the other hand know what a Dollar is.

we have federal reserve notes.

No ######? the federal reserve is what backs the money, but then agian you said nothing backs it, so i guess its not a federal reserve note.

not dollors, we just call them dollors.

No just you call them dollors, the rest of the United States calls them dollars.

If you actually want to learn about our money, here you go,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_dollar#History

that, my freind, is what your precious goverment is doing right now.

Your proof?



what im saing is, should that be its job?

Then what should the goverment do, if you suggest all these things it shouldn't do, then I want to know what it is to do for us.



we dont have too small of a goverment. read the friggin books, i cant ecplain why, thats why there is a book about it.

So you want me to go out of my way to read a book you don't understand well enough to explain it to me. Yeah, I'm good.


he was here as an example. why dont you try to follow it.

Sure, but your first into the water...


i didnt say God wrote it.

you said to the exact quote "..and God had it written down in his book called the Bible." perhaps you'd like to interpute that, if he had it written down but he didn't write it? what do you mean... I must not follow right.


seems like every one of these topics turns into me a grunge going way WAY off topic make HUGE posts about economics and religion.. i would LOVE to meet you and talk about this where i dont have to type everything out.

Take a trip down here to the bible belt, and I'll explain a few things to you. I have no problem homeschooling you here.

PART TWO



oh yea, you dont have to buy the books so you dont need to waste your money. you might can find them at a liberary

So you don't want public schooling but you're for a thing called the library, who do you think funds that place, do you think the books come free, that nice companys donate them...

ok, lets just pretend you did read the books, you wouldnt be argueing with me. you see, i cant explain whats in the books,

Why do you want me to pretend to agree, I don't so I wont. What you suggest is outlandishly dumb (or what this book is suggesting then)

[stealthyeliminator]

haha grunge, your sarcasm cracks me up.

"Stop reffering to ****ing religion like its the truth in everything, if thats how we were taught nothing new would be found out, we'd just be going off 2000+years of old knowledge, cause all we would know was what "adam"(kindof funny that the first person name was adam, such a common name back then I bet.) knew. "

im not saing do only what he did, you can learn from the past. that is what im saing we should do.

"It comes from the word for dollar in spanish, acutally."

it comes from the word "thaler". during the middle ages there was a mint in a place called Joachimthal, in Bohemia. the mint minted one ounce silver coins. the coin was called the joachimthaler. it was widely accepted because it was a good coin. to make a long story short, the coins name was shorted to thaler. thaler changed to daler, being easier to say. then to dollar, which means one ounce of silver.

"So you want me to go out of my way to read a book you don't understand well enough to explain it to me. Yeah, I'm good. "

i cant explain it because it all fits together like one big puzzle piece. if i wanted to explain it i might as well type out the whole book.

"you said to the exact quote "..and God had it written down in his book called the Bible." perhaps you'd like to interpute that, if he had it written down but he didn't write it? what do you mean... I must not follow right."

he had it writen down. as in, he told someone to write it down. if my mom tells me to write something down, she had me write it down.

"So you don't want public schooling but you're for a thing called the library, who do you think funds that place, do you think the books come free, that nice companys donate them..."

er, no, i never said i was for them, even though i am. i didnt say the goverment shouldnt build them. did i? your taking what i said and making it more large scale then i meant it to be. sorry.

"Why do you want me to pretend to agree, I don't so I wont."

i dont want you to pretend anything. ugh. let me rephrase it. if you did read the books you wouldnt be argueing with me. ok? i dont even think you actually belive your making a good arguement, are you just trying to make me mad?

[stealthyeliminator]

in 1270 a.d. there was a goverment ruled by a man named kublai khan. he wanted to buy stuff for his goverment but he didnt want to raise the taxes making the people mad. so he mad something called paper money. if he wanted a pound worth of gold he wrote down on a piece of paper one pound of gold and signed his name on it. at first the people wouldnt accept it but then he passed the legal tender law. you may ask if he is going to pass a law making them to accept his paper money why doesnt he just make them pay taxes. i dont know, maybe all that political power finally screwed him up. btw, im working on those lies in the textbooks.

Paper money continued to be issued from time to time but, “No adequate provision for redemption was made, but, when they were thoroughly discredited, notes would be redeemed at a small percentage of their nominal value and new issues would be made, and as a result people were everywhere beginning to lose faith in paper currencies.” (History of Money in the British Empire and the United States, Agnes F. Dodd, London, 1911, p 235.)

"By May 1794, any person who even asked if payment was to be made in gold or paper was subject to the death penalty."

i dont know about you but to me that right there sounds kindof like, "if you even ask for gold instead of the paper money then i will chop off your head."

now i wonder why they would rather have gold over paper money? maybe cause the gold was NOT losing value, like paper money would if lets say the goverment was inflating..??

[PaintballinnTGP1608]

Oh, Grunge, you know it only TAKES ONE SUICIDAL IRAQI TO KILL I DON'T KNOW UP TO 150,000 PEOPLE, DON'T YOU????? The reason we are over there is because the Iraqi's hate not only American, but any life...even theres! WAR IS BAD, WAR IS BLOODY, BUT YOU DONT GET IT. DAMMIT IM MAD BECAUSE YOU DONT GET NUCLEAR WEAPONS OR WHAT IRQIS CAN DO. TURN ON THE NEWS!!!!!!! ITS BAD..... Oh yes, I do hate John Kerry. THE IRQIS BURN THE AMERICAN FLAG!!! THE ONLY REASON WE HAVE FREEDOM IS WAR.

[PaintballinnTGP1608]

Oh yeah, Grunge, you may be thrown in jail for every word you babble in Iraq because they dont have freedom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Or Kuwiat or wherever! Thats because your against our freedom. If you argue thats basically war is our freedom. Your against freedom. Your against war. YOUR actually against people surviving an atomic blast. WHO CAUSED 9/11? WHO TRIED TO KILL SOOOO MANY PEOPLE? IRAQ DID. BAGHDAD PEOPLE DID.

Grunge just so I'm clear, it seems your calling America the enemy. Is that the case?