Disscusion

[Team Lockout]

I'm here if you have more questions talk here.

[PaintballinnTGP1608]

Ok, now, I know precatuions must be taken for future stuff, but, what I am not seeing here is your protecting the enviroment ( I get that ) by putting yourself on the picture of a hunting magazine.... Your making an excuse ( It seems ) that you are protecting the enviroment ( Which you may be ) So you can put yourself on a hunting magazine..... So you are a 'hunter for the enviroment'......kink out any details.

[Team Lockout]

I didn't put my self on a magazine I'm not some editor I was 13 years old and shot a 213 gross buck don't you think that would make your magazine look good. I hunt because I enjoy being out doors getting that thrill of the hunt.Do you play video games?

[PaintballinnTGP1608]

1. I call 'the thrill of the hunt' a bunch of ##### unless your in the military.

2. Indeed I do play video games.....
With no hunting, if thats your question.

[Muppet Mower]

Team Lockout is the best team right now because I'm the captain of it!!! Frontman all the way baby! B) Oh, and Justin, you know that I'm better than you :lol:

[PaintballinnTGP1608]

Um, is he supposed to be a part of this, if not GET OUT!

[Team Lockout]

Don't play video games they rott your brain and can cause fires once this kid left his PS2 on and cought someones house on fire I almost punched him. I hate game freaks what did the system do to you why play it. 1. Are you the honorary gamer of the year do's that make it right gosh understand it's fun but it can cuase some serious harm. I think It's positivly wrong I am a strong anti gamer and care for our saftey.

RING ANY BELLS

[PaintballinnTGP1608]

Scientiffically proven it improves your hand-eye coordination.... ( I do lots a sports ).... Can you tell your little buddy Muppet Mower to get outta this discussion? Anyway, like I said, I call 'the thrill of the hunt' a bunch of ##### unless your in the military itself..... But still, I pure dont get you, ( Or your crazy buddy <_< ). Can you tell me why a potential military term, is used in your "enviromental protecting"?

[Team Lockout]

Does adrenaline surge through your viens when you play sports or paintball, that is THrill of the sport, and I have the thrill of the hunt.and muppet dude has every right to be here.

and when i was talking about video games it sound exact like what your saying and you came to it's defence perfectly and that's what I'm doing for hunting

[PaintballinnTGP1608]

You said "What did the system do to you why play it?" OMG Lockout.... People dont make deer.... They make gaming systems..... Gaming is animation. Not freakin reality, and it seems you are trying to slip by that..... Theres no such thing as 'the thrill of the game'....

Ah yes, you admitted you "hunt". What happened to the enviroment? :o So I thought it WAS NOT 'the thrill of the hunt', I thought it was 'the thrill of protecting the enviroment, that I am seemingly going to lie about ( Perhaps not ), so I can hunt'..... So apparently, if you do care for the enviroment, you care about hunting more.

[Team Lockout]

This convesation is pointless Your like a brick wall I tell you the whole story so you chose a side to pick on then once I explain that side you try to nail the other side.

Sawing people in half is all right because it's not real on a game I don't care who you are that Is just sick.

[Team Lockout]

Hey muppet are you still there talk to me buddy B)

[PaintballinnTGP1608]

I do pros and cons, and apparently thats not Ok with you..... I express things one one side, then I try to clean up with the other.... HAPPY?? Now your the one tryin to nail me hard..... I stay a brick wall no matter what as long as you dont know where I live Ill put up a fight.

[Team Lockout]

I don't care were you live, and I don't fight. I'm 14. and am going to talk about paintball now :( Later Gator

[RockAndRoll73]

(Urge to reply too overwheleming)

From what I have gotten out of this is a discussion (if you can call it that) about if hunting is evil or not. Then some pointless posts in between. Here is my outlook on hunting:

It does indeed protect the enviroment. Man has pushed out, if not eliminated all the natural predators of deer, turkey, and other game animals. This causes a rapid overpopultion of game animals. This puts an incredible strain on an already decreasing enviroment due to urban sprawl. How I view it is that hunters take over the role of natural predators. We decrease the population, alleviating the strain, and sparing game animals from a hard, suffering death due to starvation and disease. It also protects humans due to making it less likely to have an animal run into a car. There is a thrill involved. However, I think for me, its more of the rush that you are testing your wits and intelligence against another species who is faster, with better senses, more manuverable, and with a better knowledge of the terrain then you. It often involves long hours of tracking and it is tiring. Some hunters do hunt just for the sport, or they poach. However, this is a small percent. Just like in paintball, it is often a small amount of individuals that harm the many.

[PaintballinnTGP1608]

Ok, I get that, answer this Rocky.....

If you kill to many of an animal, you could disrupt that enviroments food chain... Apparently you know, but dont analyze, that the food chain itself is fragile... Killing to many of one animal that was a predator, starve, which the next one starves, which the next one starves, because theres been a rift in the food chain, due to too much hunting animals when you say your 'protecting the enviroment'.

[F.T. Phantom]

If you can annalyze, they should be able to also.

For the most part, predators are not hunted. Most are protected species.

Killing off a predator is why hunting is needed. If not, the non predators would over populate and starve. That has happened. Just recently Tenn. discussed opening deer season all year to thin out the herds in middle Tenn. They have adapted to living closer to humans and they had a few good years of plenty to eat. The population grew to the point they were beginning to over run certain areas.

If we had left the wolves and such, and, they had been able to adapt to us and not be a threat to us, there would not be a over population problem among the non predators. They like to adapt by going after the easiest prey. Sheep, calves, cats, dogs and such. They can be a real problem. Non prey only become a problem (for the most part) when overpopulation occurs.

We need people to hunt to maintain the balance.

You either need predatory animals or people. People are considered the better choice.

[stealthyeliminator]

Well earlier I had resisted the urge to post in such a stupid thread but now that some other older, and maturer(sp), members have posted I think I will too. I think I'll quote some people first, I always like to do that...

"If you kill to many of an animal, you could disrupt that enviroments food chain... Apparently you know, but dont analyze, that the food chain itself is fragile... Killing to many of one animal that was a predator, starve, which the next one starves, which the next one starves, because theres been a rift in the food chain, due to too much hunting animals when you say your 'protecting the enviroment'."

Thats why there is "hunting seasons" and "kill limits". Like with fishing, you can only kill or catch a certain amount of that animal. There are also limits on where and how you can kill or catch an animal.

"Uh.... Ill make this the last post.... WTF to you A-5..... You dont win, and so I beleive I have accomspished yet another sense of persistence .... A new layer."

WTH to you. A5 wasn't trying to "win." He was expressing his opinion about how stupid this arguement and the way its being argued is.

Now I'll say this, I hunt. I hunt deer. I think there is nothing wrong with it. When I kill it, I eat the meat, tan the hid and hang the antlers if its a buck. I try to use as much of the deer as I can. Now, how is that wrong? Do you think its wrong for a wolf to eat a deer or to kill it? Didn't think so. If your thinking something like, well we can eat other things and wolfs can't. Or something to that effect. If you eat meat and say hunting is wrong the you are a hipocrite(sp). Now about hunting deer for pure sport, I don't really know. I haven't really thought about it. If there is an over population I don't see a problem with it as long as they use the deer for something.

I don't mean to be picking at you TGP but your the one I had the beef with.(Thats a PUN btw.)

[RockAndRoll73]

To prevent the disruption of the food chain, as stealth explainied, we have seasons and kill limits. It depends on how much land you own, and there is a lottery for does in the NY. Overpopulation is a great problem here in NY, I can't even count how many living deer and roadkill that I passed on the to and back from my camp. Too many, they poise a hazard, and when done correctly, there will be only positive effects to the enviroment.

[MAGGPAINTBALLER]

al u tree hugging, ben an jerry eating, enviomentalist hippies shut up!!!!
Its ok to kill a animal if ur gonna eat it, Ever heard of Hamburger. Cows are treated horriblly, do u eat it yup( if not ur a vegitarian ####)
Just b/c there killed w/ a bullet dosent mean its wrong(its actually more humane then wat they do to cows,turkeys Etc...)
And for those ANIMAL LOVERS were not hunting cats or ur family dog.
People hunted for centurys and no one complained . NATIVE AMERICANS STILL HUNT, go yell at them

[stealthyeliminator]

Originally posted by MAGGPAINTBALLER@May 30 2005, 04:14 PM
al u tree hugging, ben an jerry eating, enviomentalist hippies shut up!!!!
Its ok to kill a animal if ur gonna eat it, Ever heard of Hamburger. Cows are* treated horriblly, do u eat it yup( if not ur a vegitarian ####)
Just b/c there killed w/ a bullet dosent mean its wrong(its actually more humane then wat they do to cows,turkeys Etc...)
And for those ANIMAL LOVERS were not hunting cats or ur family dog.
People hunted for centurys and no one complained . NATIVE AMERICANS STILL HUNT, go yell at them
10475



LMAO. Enviromentalist hippies? Hahahaha. Its funny to watch those enviromentalist people on TV. They always get maced, arrested and embarassed(sp) on TV and they say they "win." The stumps always still get pulled, the test missles launched, the trees cut down and the cows butchered and they still go at it.*sigh* At least it makes for interesting shows.

[GrungeIsDead]

TGP, you don't even understand the food chain, its not that "fragile", the dinnasours die off cause of no food and all of a sudden the food chain is fragile... You could easily kill of a type of fish that a certian shark eats a lot of, but as long as their is still another type of fish, that shark is going to have food to eat. If you kill all types of fish and water life other than sharks, than yes sharks a screwed.

The reason the dinasour died, was because of vegitation dying out cause of the lack of sun light, so no animal that eats plant vegitation had food, causing them to die off, then the carnivors went cause they had no meat to eat, or vegitation. Meaning they had nothing to eat. causing them to die.

If we kill off the deer, what eats deer will still find itself something to eat. If all the cows in the world dissappared to day, I can guarentee you that will still be alive, just Wendy's would be out of bussniess.

No one is going to say they hunt for the enviroment, its a side effect, just like Bush invading Iraq, freeing the iraqi people was a side effect, what he really wanted there hurts our enviroment even more.

Huntining sustains our enviroment. If not we'd have a lot more people hitting deers on the road.

[RockAndRoll73]

Wow, Grunge, I never knew that I could actually agree and disagree with you in the same post. Agree with everything about hunting but then the Bush statement but everyone has their own opinion about that.

[GrungeIsDead]

Originally posted by RockAndRoll73@May 30 2005, 08:11 PM
Agree with everything about hunting but then the Bush statement but everyone has their own opinion about that.
10558


Of course everyone has their own opinion, but I have to say that I belive Bush didn't go their mainly to "free" up anything other than Iraq oil reserve. Out of all the places in the world that are being treated unjust you're telling me Bush decided to be superman there. Look a little up about current Genocide, put darfur and genocide together into a google search, this has been going on for some time, you'll see what a real fragile food chain is like when in October, its head gave an estimate of 71,000 deaths by starvation and disease alone between March and October 2004.
71g's mainly contributed to starvation, and here we are complaining about a few deer and cows getting killed, we only complain about food when our own bellies are full. And I guarntee 71,000 people are a lot more than ever died in Iraq due to Saddam gassing his own people

While a recent British Parliamentary Report estimates that over 300,000 people have already died[1] (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4268733.stm), the United Nations estimates that 180,000 have died in the 18 months of the conflict [2] (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4349063.stm). More than 1.8 million people had been displaced from their homes. 200,000 have fled to neighboring Chad.

[Doorman]

Well I came into this one way too late.

I'm an avid hunter and have been for 20+ years. I used to teach hunter education until my health interfered. I have three daughters; 11, 4, 3... the oldest hunts with me and the two little ones will too.

As for any environmental impact that happens, let me give you a few figures. In 2003 sportsmen in the state of Washington spent $1.4 billion in the economy. The tax revenue from this sustained fish and game department jobs, who protect the environment. The spending from sportsmen alone would put them in the #1 spot for the Fortune 500 if they were classified as a company. The tax revenue from this spending paid for 168 teacher salaries. This money was spent in many companies that contribute charity to conservation groups.

Those are just a couple facts many people overlook when they spout off with the rhetoric of how hunters are ruining things and don't look after the environment.

I belong to the Washington Waterfowl Association. We have thousands of members across the state. We build nesting boxes for wood ducks, malard nest tubes, and clean up lands of garbage. If an oil spill occurs, we are there to lend a hand in the clean up. We work with Ducks Unlimited to help create waterfowl refuges, protect watersheds, and help clean up behind the "greenies" who are out there to watch the birds.

If it wasn't for the money that hunters spend, there would be NO wildlife for YOU to watch :D

And please do reply... I've battled this in front of Washington Senators and Congressmen, staged rallies and demonstrations in support of sportsmen rights, had more than a few radio and television interviews, sat on the board of directors for the Washingtonians for Wildlife Conservation, and created an organization called Unified Sportsmen Of Washington. I'd love to discuss how misinformed you happen to be....

[stealthyeliminator]

The reason the dinasour died, was because of vegitation dying out cause of the lack of sun light, so no animal that eats plant vegitation had food, causing them to die off, then the carnivors went cause they had no meat to eat, or vegitation. Meaning they had nothing to eat. causing them to die.

I'm not trying to get into another creationism vs. evolution arguement with you, I just want to say there are over 1,000 beleifs of how the dinasours died... One person even believed their death was related to them farting too much. I am kindof shocked that what you say about the plants dieing pretty much is what I belive, its how they died you and me dissagree with.

Anyway, I compleatly agree with your shark illustration. Makes sense.

Doorman, if what your saying is true, my hunting could contribute to public schools teachers salaries? Or were you saying, IF they were a company, it would.

[Doorman]

No, I'm saying that your hunting DOES contribute to such. The amount of money that sportsmen in your state spend is in the billions to pursue their love. The tax revenue generated from the money they spend is a resource that the state governments couldn't lose, but they choose to ignore the sportsmen. That's why I created the USOW, met with legislators and congressmen, radio and television interviews, etc. The people making the laws need to realize that the money sportsmen put out into the economy would leave many of them without jobs if it were taken away.

Sportsmen across the US, if they were considered a company, have an annual spending contribution to the economy greater than Ford/Chevy/IBM/Microsoft combined![/i] If they were considered a company, they would far outpace anyone else for the #1 spot in the Fortune 500 in regards to generated revenue.

Sportsmen have a voice, a very VERY loud voice. However, by nature we are an aloof group... we hunt solo or in small groups, and that's how we do our battles. This is why so many people out there don't realize the contributions made by sportsmen in each state and nationwide. Maybe, just maybe, one of these days we will organize into a unified political spearhead and be recognized as economic contributors instead of barbaric killers.

************** Edit **************

Okay, forgive the misrepresentation of the numbers, it's been a while since I've pushed the issues.... we would rank 11th on the Fortune 500 and could support over 2400 teachers just through WA state sportsmen.

Here's information from the Congressional Sportsmen Foundation taken directly from information from the the USFWS (US Fish and Wildlife Service)..... Twice as many Washington residents hunt or fish each year as attend Seattle Seahawk games (1.02 million* vs. 508,367).
One of every six Washington residents hunt or fish.
Washington sportsmen annually spend 10 times more than the value of the state’s commercial seafood landings ($1.4 billion vs. $134 million).
Washington sportsmen annually spend nearly twice as much as the cash receipts from the state’s apple crop ($1.4 billion vs. $806 million).
STATE TAX REVENUE INFORMATION
Sportsmen in Washington annually pay $95.2 million in state sales and fuel taxes – this could pay 2,471 teachers’ salaries or fund the annual education expenses for 14,650 students.
JOBS
Sportsmen support more jobs in Washington than Microsoft Corporation (22,766 vs. 20,000)
This is just figures for WA state.

Tell me where you live and I can show you the corellation between sportsmen and other things in your state.

Take a look at little old Rhode Island...... [b]Rhode Island sportsmen annually spend almost four times the amount generated by greenhouse/nursery products, the state’s top agricultural commodity. ($118 million vs. $30 million)
On a conservation note, nationwide Through license sales and excise taxes, sportsmen
pay the lion’s share of all state fish and wildlife agency budgets. Money that funds such things as fisheries and wildlife management and recreational programs.

Since 1934, when the first duck stamp was purchased, more than $647 million has gone towards conserving wildlife habitat--greater in size than the state of Massachusetts, providing homes for waterfowl and countless other wetland species.



* * Sportsmen contribute $54 every second, $3240 every minute, $194,400 every hour, $4.7 million every day, adding up to $1.7 billion every year for conservation.

* * Not only are hunters and anglers a pillar of our economy, they also underwrite the protection and management of the country’s wildlife resources.

* * Sportsmen’s dollars make up the lion’s share of on-the-ground wildlife conservation funding. When a hunter buys a shotgun to take to the field or ammunition for their rifle, a portion of the cost goes towards wildlife management or educating a new generation of hunters, just as a part of the cost of a new rod, reel or boat fuel goes to make sure there are trout in the streams and places to launch boats. For more than 60 years sportsmen have paid this self-imposed tax totaling more than $7.6 billion for on the ground projects in every state, protecting our natural environment and our fish and wildlife for the enjoyment of all Americans.

And here's some more staggering figures...... * SPORTSMEN PARTICIPATION IN 2001 (16 YEARS AND OLDER) – 37.8 MILLION
Hunters – 13 million
Anglers – 34 million
· There are more sportsmen than people who collect Social Security retirement benefits.
· There are two times more sportsmen than members of Labor Unions.
· Sportsmen could fill every NFL and Major League Baseball Stadium, as well as every NASCAR track 6 times over.
· There are as many hunters as residents of New York City, Los Angeles, and Houston combined.

TOTAL EXPENDITURES IN 2001 – $70 BILLION
Hunters – $20.6 billion
Anglers – $35.6 billion
Unspecified – $13.8 billion
· If Sportsmen were a corporation, they would rank #11 on the Fortune 500 list, above Home Depot™ and AT&T™.
· Sportsmen generate 6 times more revenue than the receipts from the top 40 box office hits of all time.
· Sportfishing generates 9 times more revenue than commercial fishing.

JOBS SUPPORTED IN 2001:
Hunters – 575,000
Anglers – 1.1 million
· Sportsmen support more jobs than Wal-Mart™ - the country’s largest employer.
· Hunters support more jobs than all of the nation’s top commercial airlines combined.
· Anglers support more jobs than Exxon-Mobil™, General Motors™ and Ford™ combined.


Oh, and keep in mind these numbers are a little skewed.... if a respondent is a hunter and an angler, they are only counted once. So for those thinking the statistics are fudged, you're right... they are fudged in your favor.

Now someone please tell me where I'm not a conservationist just because I hunt. Please, someone tell me how they have done more to protect and enhance the wildlife of our great country than I do by being a sportsman.

quoted sources from http://www.sportsmenslink.org/programs/impact.asp

[prolite959]

Originally posted by Team Lockout@May 27 2005, 10:52 PM
Don't play video games they rott your brain and can cause fires once this kid left his PS2 on and cought someones house on fire I almost punched him. I hate game freaks what did the system do to you why play it. 1. Are you the honorary gamer of the year do's that make it right gosh understand it's fun but it can cuase some serious harm. I think It's positivly wrong I am a strong anti gamer and care for our saftey.

* * * * * * * RING ANY BELLS
9428


Dryers cause more fires then gaming systems, would you give up a dryer for your safety?

[paintballinsniperman]

*PaintballinnTGP1608*
Im back in wwwaaayy to late but thank you Prolite..... Doorman, you know what staggers me? Let me say, its driving me nuts, that people say ( Quote from a friend today ) " If you dont like us hunting, how does it make it right for an animal?" *Harsh tone*

OK, it drives me nuts all the people who say that. Its animals insticnt. Its your sport... I really dont get that, people showing no respect for animals, but we cant teach em that, so dont bust your bubbles if you are against what Im saying..... Now in FL here, I hear nothing, and I mean NOTHING, about overpopulation with animals....

The guy who said my former quote, was in school today... I bout cused him out. And you know what?..... When Im speaking for MYself, and for what I think, I could care less what I say to him, ( I got tattles in my school ), but I can understand you if my body tells me to think about it, but really, if yall tell me that I stand up for animals too much, ( Which is what that ?Friend? said today ) so I dont care what you think..... You may actually be right, I do stand up for animals too much, and I dont give a darn about it.

I really never meant Im against hunting. I meant food wise I wont go ballistic.... Everybodys saying their enviromentalists that protect the place.... I take it as the wrong type of enviromentalist if you know what I mean.... I never meant terrorists, but since I have never really heard about overpopulation, I hear more bout birds choking on uncut 6 packs in the woods. *Actually reports of 12 in 1 day*..... Get a job on trash patrol then.....

So I really dont know if your right, but if you set up stuff for overpop, and the govt says nothin, tell them to set up something, where you can go to the woods every day, and feed them..... Some of you would spend less money on that than bullets <_< .

Doorman, your super long quotes only say their hunting. Really, thats all I saw out of it. I go to Maccleny, Georgia sometimes, and I see bullet holes, up to 20 per sign..... St. George has had more than 40 arrests the past 2 months, for sport hunters.... News says they were protecting the enviroment by "killing things". My Dad was like hahahahahahahahahahahaha. Now you see where I plot my info from, just wanted to point that out.....

[stealthyeliminator]

I don't get you TGP. I think you said that there where 40 hunters arrested in the past 2 months, but I don't see any point in that. If your trying to prove hunters get arrested a lot or something that makes no sence. Thats like the UK saying that Americans are bad because 1,000s of them get arrested every month.

Your 11, your probably not going to hear a lot about over population wether or not there is some or not. Also, explain your 6 pack thing, I don't get it. Brids choked on an uncut 6 pack? Whats an uncut 6 pack? Whats up with the bullet holes in the signs? That doesn't mean anything for or against hunters.

[Doorman]

Well stealthy, he makes a point. The image that sportsmen have is one of pollutants and vandals. Much the same as paintballers. The few bad apples out there are what we are judged upon. Personally I abhor any sportsman that leaves behind anything more than footprints. An uncut 6 pack refers to the plastic rings that a 6 pack of pop or beer comes in. These get tangled around wildlife and cause serious harm. The same thing happens with discarded fishing line, etc. Unfortunately this is how we are judged, instead of looking at the whole of sportsmen and the contributions they have made.

TGP, the things you hear about and the images you see on television regarding the irresponsibility of sportsmen is usually propaganda delivered to you by PETA or HSUS (Humane Society of the United States). Despite the name of HSUS, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the local humane society/dog pound. It's sole mission is to destroy the rights of sportsmen. I'll find the official quotes from its president as well as many of its board members if you like. PETA is the exact same way. Unfortunately, PETA funds eco-terrorists that have killed people in their attempts to "liberate" animals. I'll find you the quotes from the leader of PETA who said that an animals life is worth more than a humans life if you want.

These two main organizations attempt to flood the television, radio, and newspaper medias with horrid stories about things that are totally untrue. Here in WA trapping was banned because of the propaganda flood these groups put forth and the lobbying they did in our legislature. The people voted that trapping should be illegal because they didn't understand the ramifications. 8 years later we are standing here with predator problems for ranchers as well as predator encroachment into urban areas. People are dying because PETA and HSUS put a commercial on TV showing a little kitty caught in a leghold trap. Our legislature has since realized the folly of passing this law and has reintroduced trapping on a restricted scale. It is expected that they will overturn this law in the next couple years.

The numbers and quotes that I posted contain information about hunters as well as fishermen. Through the combined efforts of both we make an impact for environmentalism. People you may know that hunt/fish do nothing to give back, but the unsung heros are the ones out there and are rarely heard of. It is through the contributions of all sportsmen, both monetary and physical, that provides your state with the funds to keep open the Everglades refuge, and all other wildlife refuges in your state (of which there are quite a few).

I'm sorry you have been misinformed by the media, and possibly your father, about the contribution sportsmen make towards environmentalism. Perhaps you, and your father, should visit the link in my last post. It has a lot of information that many people never get to see. None of it is propaganda, but all of it is based upon factual figures from the US Fish and Wildlife Service.

A couple little facts about Florida in case you were wondering: More Florida residents fish or hunt each year than attend Miami Dolphins, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and Jacksonville Jaguars games combined (3.2 million* vs. 1.6 million).
There are more sportsmen in Florida than the combined populations of the cities of Jacksonville, Miami, Tampa, St. Petersburg, Orlando, Ft. Lauderdale and Tallahassee (3.2 million* vs. 2.1 million).
Annual spending by Florida anglers is five times greater than the cash receipts from the state’s orange crop ($4.08 billion vs. $786 million).
Total annual spending by Florida sportsmen represents 65% of the Gross State Product from hotels and lodging ($4.6 billion vs. $7.1 billion).
Sportsmen in Florida pay $248.9 million in state sales, and fuel taxes – this could pay 6,930 teachers’ salaries or fund 41,484 students’ annual education expenses.

I just hope you can understand that I'm not here trying to bash you for what you think, but I'm here trying to educate you on the truth of the matter :D

[stealthyeliminator]

Oh, yes TGP, littering is a big problem. Holes in signs is too. What I would like to know is how do you know its hunters doing it? Yes I can see how you would assume that fishing line laying around and floating in the rivers and lakes is there from fishermen. I get that. None of my family or any hunter that I know do NOT litter. In fact, if we see overwelming amounts of litter we clean it up. I am a boyscout so thats just what I do. Leave no trace is something we live by in the outdoors. I mean heck, we don't even leave the rocks of our firepit in a circle, we scatter them around. I now see your point. What I'm getting at is that there are litterers and vandals that are also hunters but to think that all hunters and hunting in general is wrong just because there are a few that are wrong is a logical fallacy. A hasty generalization(I think thats the one) fallacy to be exact.

Regarding PETA, and I may be getting a wrong impression of them but its a really funny one, something they are really good at, and the only thing they are good at, is making a funny TV show. Not all of what I watch is PETA but I think the majority of them was. I get to watch them get blasted with water hoses from navy ships, rammed by navy ships, arrested, "tourchered(sp)" with pepper spray, all kinds of stuff. The really funny thing is, after all this happens they say they "still won" and they "got their point across." Actually all they did was get made fun of on national TV, make the armed forces so mad and annoyed they used simi-leathal force to disband them, and got laughed at by people all over the US. I mean some of them even got subdued by navy SEALS. All they did was delay a test missles launch a few minutes.

[prolite959]

Originally posted by Doorman@May 31 2005, 04:08 PM

A couple little facts about Florida in case you were wondering: [list]
More Florida residents fish or hunt each year than attend Miami Dolphins, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and Jacksonville Jaguars games combined (3.2 million* vs. 1.6 million).

Probably because Miami sucks, Tampa Bay sucks now, and Jax is decent. But that's just my opinion as to why there are more fishers then football fans.

[PaintballinnTGP1608]

OK, Stealthy, a girl found a .22 on the road and started shotting signs when she found bullets another 1/2 mile away. <_< . Who else could it be?

When I go to Maccleny, ( this happened twice ) I was passing a train track, and I heard what sounded like two shotgun shells going off... My dad floored it, but there are hunters ON, yes on the tracks that shoot anything they want, preferably animals. I went on a track myself, and saw the bones of 3 deer..... and 7 shotgun shells. Yeah, I know I cant judge ya, but I can only judge off of what I know.

Stealthy, what I meant, was when there are bullets holes, *almost* all the time there is hunting. Now, I was scared the freak outta me when I heard those shells, so theres more where I get my info.

I picture a true hunter, a slob, drunk, jerk. Im not saying yall are, HECK NO, but next to the decaying bodies, next to the shell, then beer bottles. My point stands. Ive never even fired a gun, let alone hunt, and never in my wildest dreams would I.

Some more stuff.

I meant in St. George, there have been arrests because of drunkens hunting.

In St. George, lately, there has been overwhelming rounds of hunting.

Those drunks aint followin the laws "No hunting" in St. George.

*Im a Jax boy.*

[stealthyeliminator]

OK, Stealthy, a girl found a .22 on the road and started shotting signs when she found bullets another 1/2 mile away.* . Who else could it be?

Anyone who owns a gun.

When I go to Maccleny, ( this happened twice ) I was passing a train track, and I heard what sounded like two shotgun shells going off... My dad floored it, but there are hunters ON, yes on the tracks that shoot anything they want, preferably animals. I went on a track myself, and saw the bones of 3 deer..... and 7 shotgun shells. Yeah, I know I cant judge ya, but I can only judge off of what I know.

I target shoot all the time. In the country guns going off is not out of the ordinary and it especially doesn't mean someone is hunting. I think you were suggesting that the deer were killed by hunters. How do you know? I can see how anyone with a mind could think of it as a possiblity but we don't have any proof, now do we?

Drunk people with guns that go shoot animals has nothing to do with wether hunting should be legal. The drunks don't care about the laws and arn't going to go by them so making the laws so that not anyone can hunt is stupid. Punish the drunks not hunters. I think your confusing hunters with stupid, drunk, hermit hillbillies. BIG difference bud.

[MAGGPAINTBALLER]

The deer were on Traintracks right? Well i might be crazy but............................................... .................................................. .................................................. ...........MAYBEE A TRAIN HIT THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Doorman]

Alright, we've said our piece on both sides of the issue. Now it's just degrading towards a flame fest....